Rockezine.com interview with Fear Factory on Jun 15, 2004

with Burton C. Bell on Jun 15, 2004

Three years ago Fear Factory’s front man Burton C. Bell shattered the metal scene with his announcement that he had left the band. Being the creative spirits and passionate musicians they are, every member of the band moved on. The more surprising it was to hear that Fear Factory launched their new album Archetype last April. Again a work of honesty and expression, but also an evolution in their music. Just before they start off on their European tour, Burton shows us the essence of their spark. We start where we left off three years ago…
		Last time we spoke it was about Digimortal, three years ago. I think it’s very difficult to talk about a new album, because the songs still haven’t grown on you. You know, I think it took a lot of people to let that record Digimortal grow on them. I think it’s taken a couple of years, really. It’s a very different record: it’s dark… It’s dark because I did not love it. I was not myself and I was so disassociated from it at that point of time. I was not grounded. You know, everything I’ve ever written is a testament. Even the idea of me calling the self proclaimed Dry Lung Vocal Martyr where I basically almost (in a way) killed myself to change this band. Leaving the band maybe was an act of martyrdom, but it was an act of…just like death, that I had to go through. A cataclysmic event that must occur in a lot of ways to make a change.
		But in retrospect, when I now hear the lyrics of Digimortal, in the lyrics it’s also clear. You know… it is clear! I believe that everything that I’ve ever written was on account of what was going to happen, was this… eh testament. To me it was obvious to see what was happening. Even on the words of Lynchpin…like ‘Will there ever be an end? Will there never be an end?’
		Stuff like ‘Take one peace of me..’ or ‘I’m nothing more, nothing less than a single peace of flesh’… It was very clear. There was forethought in a lot of the songs. Even in Obsolete, you know.. all the songs! There’s always a forethought, there’s a piece of me and of my emotions in there, in what I’m saying. This is me; this is what’s happening. If you have questions: read the lyrics. This time around, these lyrics on Archtype, I’m not disassociating myself, my true identity from the lyrics. ‘Cause in the past, on Digimortal I was escaping into a futuristic world where I didn’t want to have to explain myself because I was not comfortable with the way I felt, I didn’t understand.
		When did you decide: “Well it’s too much, I quit the band” ? There were a few instances on tour where there were altercations, there were some very heated disputes, conflicts within the band, conflicts with another person in the band that became too great. Too great to even focus on being creative, to focus on working. At that point in time I just had to save myself. Beause if I would have continued, I wouldn`t have been happy. And I was not happy. I was very, very unhappy. Because my apathy towards the band was effecting my creative outlet. I could not think clearly; I was blocked. It was at that point where I told myself that I’ll finish the tours and when the tours are done I will take some time off and take a decision. So when we finished the last tour of Digimortal I escaped to a far off place and was alone. Where I could be away from computers, be away from television, basically I was just in the middle of the Pacific Ocean all by myself. I was grounded, and it was then that it came to me what I had to do. The only way that I could reach a change within myself was to change the exterior of myself as well. The external was the band, which was a part of me, but I just had to leave.
		It’s is a creative process with 4 people, so you have to depend on each other, you have to feed each other… …And that wasn’t happening. There was an oppressive nature going on and to me it wasn’t a band. I was completely drained. Wipe less. I went to Pennsylvania to John Bechdel a very, very good friend of mine. He was the keyboard player (note: he’s also Fear factory’s keyboard player on tour) and has his own studio. Within this environment in the middle of the woods, I lived in the studio for about six months. I was just able to think, get my thoughts together, and write. John was a great outlet; he enabled me to write music, words and just let me be myself. It was like I just needed to get things out. He was very patient. We work really well together. At that point I even got a cheap apartment in Pennsylvania, in the state out there and I met a girl, she lives in New York, so it was easy to get there. So basically I’ve started a new live. You know… I needed the change. Being in LA for 14 years was… I stifled.
		Your project with John is called The Watchers… The lyrics were very different, but in the music are a lot of recognisable elements of Fear Factory. The music is really you! That’s interesting! I thought it was different. There were 3 songs on the website for a while. I just took them off because I’m recording them again. I was very pleased. I was within this world and within myself. I found something in myself during The Watchers: I found a creative energy again. It was a healing process. Because after I left Fear Factory I was very hurt. It wasn’t easy to leave something that you love. I became a hermit for a while. I didn’t say anything; didn’t do any interviews, I was kind of buried inside. Just let everything fly over. And then when the time is right I’ll get my music out there.
		You seemed to be so happy doing that… like really going back to your source. And all of a sudden: ‘Ah Fear Factory is back again! We’re doing a new album’. It’s all Roadrunners fault! While I was taking that time off during The Watchers, I was able to step outside Fear Factory and I could see everything that was going on. During these months Raymond, Christian and I learned a lot of things about what was happening with the band externally, with business, with our label contract. It was at that point in time that Christian and Raymond were also working on Kush and they were about to get signed at Sony and all of a sudden they got a letter from Roadrunner saying: “Seize to exist, because our contract was under sustention. We were still bound to Roadrunner in the States. Our contract was not broken even though it had appeared the band had seized to exist. Roadrunner didn’t see it that way. In their eyes we were still a band and we were still on the label, so it was up to Roadrunner to fade the band. As I was doing the Watchers I was contacting label people that I’ve known, conversing with them and trying to find an outlet for the Watchers. I didn’t want them to release it or anything. I didn’t want to have a contract while I was still on Roadrunner. It was a very tough decision for me. Raymond and Christian didn’t think that I would go for the idea that we would do a demo and that way we could hand it over to Roadrunner and they could make a decision. Soul-searching I said: You know what? I love the Watchers; that’s something that I’d really wanna do. It’s gonna take some time. I’ve been funding the project myself and have`t been working and haven`t been making any money… I was like: ‘I wanna continue this’. So in a quest to liberate myself I said: ‘OK, I do a demo and let Roadrunner decide’.
		But Archetype is not on Roadrunner. How’s that? We did a 4 song demo. Christian and Raymond had sent me the songs and when I first heard them I was like: Oh My God! For a demo with a drum machine and a guitar: I saw the vision. I was like: OK, I get it! This is Fear Factory. No ifs, ands or buts. This is it! Believing in this music I said: OK, I will do this demo, but under one condition: I won’t work with Dino. So that’s where the leaving wonder came in. Raymond and Christian said: “Look, we’re gonna continue Fear Factory; you’re not involved”. So all the legalities started to come back. We finished the demo, we worked really well together, we got along really well. Roadrunner had the demo for a long time. Meanwhile we did a few more songs, did some vocals on it. Even though Roadrunner liked the demo, the contract for the fifth album was a substantial amount and it was more than they wanted to participate in, really, so they didn’t want to hold us to the contract and we agreed. One of the labels we’ve been in contact with was Liquid 8; they were the one who wanted to comply as close as possible to the terms that we wanted in the contract.
		That’s a funny thing, because of Roadrunner you guys are back together again and then you leave Roadrunner. It couldn’t happen any other way, really. It’s very bizarre. It had to be! It’s a hard process, you know. An emotional rollercoaster; worrying about business; worrying about deals that had been done and how much money we owed and blah blah blah. The more I learned, the more angry I got. I channelled all that anger the into lyrics and into the music, into the vocals… It is funny. When I first learned about archetypes, I was in therapy. There was a point in time during the Digimortal process when I had to do therapy and I decided to go to a therapist who was a Jungian analyst; Karl Jung and his archetypes. She really focussed on archetypes and we discussed archetypes a lot. Actually, I wanted to name Digimortal Archetype, but someone thought it was too brainy (that’s a quote, by the way). So one of the songs on the demo, one of the 4, when I heard I immediately named it Archetype because the sound: that’s a Fear Factory song right there, archetypal for what Fear Factory has already done. All the lyrics are very honest, they’re sincere, they’re straight from my heart and from my mind. They’re very open. More open so then ever before, I believe… This is just BOOM: it’s like a punch in the face.
		At the time of Digimortal you were talking about your disregard for all the anger in the music. When I heard Archetype I was stunned by the aggression on it! But now I understand were it comes from. I had so much fuel for this album! The titles, the lyrics, the release, the performance: it’s all there. It was our therapy! For Christian and Raymond the music was their therapy. This is how they felt. It’s very angry and passionate at the same time. Archetype: these are our archetypes. And that’s how we got through it. Even more so doing the demo: luckily I would be in the room by myself working on the vocals, because at some points in time when the performance on the vocals and the lyrics came together I would break down. I could break into tears, really. Especially on songs like "Slave Labour"… Aaaaah my God… it was like a cry.
		So it all connects now? Because what I saw in the lyrics: it’s not in a SF package anymore, like on the other albums. It’s really straightforward. It all connects; it’s all real. I decided not to disassociate myself from the lyrics. The story of what Fear Factory was going through and what I was going through is a far more interesting story than making up a story about some futuristic apocalypse…
		But that is not really true, because in those lyrics there was also a subconscious you. When I learned to know about Obsolete, it was a very dark time for me:
		it really helped me. Because the lyrics gave me just that what I needed to go on and needed to feel. There’s a definite under layer in it. That’s typical. You know, that was a dark time for me too, I was starting to feel things about the band and about myself. And I had already been through some bad things within my personal life. All the lyrics are personal, all the lyrics mean something to me. Archetype is no different. It’s a very dark point in my life, when you just step away from everything, purposefully and you just look in from the outside… I needed that. If I had not done that I don’t know…
		So the cards are reshuffled now, with Christian changing from bass to guitar. But was that your idea, was it his idea? It was like a light bulb that lit one day. We were sitting around and talking as we were doing the demo and Christian was talking about: "Well, we have to find a guitar player". If it was as if a snake would have bitten us. Christian is jamming on guitar as we’re trying to figure it out. It was like: Duhu… Well YOU play guitar. Finding a guitar player would be difficult. Trying to teach somebody how to play in Fear Factory. How important Raymond’s drumming is to the sound of Fear Factory; having to deal with a new personality. A lot of guitar players have this mentality… You know, all musicians have archetypes. There’s an archetype of drummer, singer, bass player and guitar player. We’re no different. We’re archetypal of our species. It was a relief when we decided that Christian would play guitar, because it’s easier to find a bass player.
		Certainly Byron, because when I heard Archtype there’s a lot of riffs in it that are really Strapping, but also really Fear Factory. It’s forceful, really moves you. It moves me too. I connected with the music. I understood the feelings that they were feeling. The three of us were in it together, so we were experiencing a lot of the same things at the same time. It was a healing process and we went through a lot together. We healed together, so we’re closer then we’ve ever been. I trust these guys with my live and I hope they feel the same about me. We depended on each other. That’s very important.The dynamics of Fear Factory are highly energetic. We just did some shows on stage in Australia and the Jägermeister tour with Chamira and Slipknot in the USA. I had not had so much fun on stage in a long time. Being with Byron on stage... you know, he was a Fear Factory fan, I’m a SYL fan. He’s just a fantastic bass player and he’s a super cool guy, easy to get along with and it’s nice to have Gimly on stage. Ha ha ha. He’s a super kind person and the dynamics of this band are working so well that it makes me want to do more. Being with these guys on stage just feels good. We’re tighter than ever.
		But I hate you guys for taking Byron away from Strapping Young Lad! We didn’t take him away!! Strapping is taking a break.
		That means that Byron is not a regular band member of Fear Factory? That’s up to Byron. Right now Devin (Townsend) has started to sing on the Devin Townsend Project so SYL is taking a break. It’s up to Byron if he wants to be a member or not. We’re all for Byron; we’re very supportive of Byron to do SYL and Zimmershole. Be creative, keep doing what you wanna do. If you wanna do Fear Factory, then let us know. Will you be able to do these tours, will you be able to do these albums.
		You have "School" by Kurt Corbain on your new cd. Why? I wanted to do a cover for this album and we thought of a lot of songs. Going through my record collection I saw the Bleach album. I got that record right when it got out. And that record defined a whole period of my life. I connected with it every way: from music to lyrics to just the angst in his voice, the reality of it. I just wanted to respect a great artist. It is raw. And then the way we’ve put that slaver into the middle instead of doing the lead. We approached it with a garage–kind type of vibe. Just go on and do it. It wasn’t done to a complete track. We just recorded it straight into the computer without touching it. I sang it twice and it was done. I was very pleased with it. I think Kurt Corbain would have liked this song. I know for a fact that Kurt liked all different types of music. He liked heavy music. Byron will tell you stories while hanging out with him at his house. He liked a lot of bands like Testament and Death Angel. Just because he was in the band he was in, doesn’t mean he didn`t like all types of music.
		Your voice has also changed. First you had more anger in it, now it is more forceful; like you have more bass. Maybe it’s maturity. Maybe it’s confidence. This record is mature in a lot of aspects of the music, because we were focussed; we had a definite idea of what we wanted to do. I knew exactly how the book was gonna be. I had all the lyrics done.
		But you also do a lot of melodic parts in the songs. I’ve experienced, seeing you play live a lot of times, is that it’s very difficult to do that on stage. The first thing I thought was: “Oh man, why do you torture yourself, doing this?” You know, we all push ourselves to the limit. I like to challenge myself. I’ve learned some things about my own self, my physical being and things that I can handle. Lately, this past tour that we just did, instead of trying to be a gymnast on stage and moving around too much I’m starting to focus on: just let me get the vocals right. I don’t have to jump like a Mexican jumping bean all over the place to have a good show. I learned that if I just perform well and get my vocals there I’ll have enough energy to perform these parts and I can do it. When we did this tour in Australia and we did one headlining show and we bust out some classics we haven’t played for a while. Like "Rise Above Oppression", "Zero Signal" and "Piss Christ" and we ended the set with "Replica". After the set was done, everybody had left the stage except John. He was playing very moody keyboard parts and for the first time ever, we played "Timelessness" live. After he’s playing these parts he starts the intro of "Timelessness" and I walk on stage with just one light and I just started singing. And it was really cool because the entire crowd was singing. I just felt really good, so we’re gonna keep it.
		I want to go back to the archetypes: I asked you this question years ago and I thought you were very defensive about it…
		A lot of your lyrics are about God, about believe and I asked you what’s your connection with religion and you were very defensive about it: You can’t teach people how to love through pressure or through… Through fear.
		You even have a crucifix tattooed on your arm.. so it certainly has a special meaning to you. It does. I think I finally feel comfortable with how I felt with religion these past years. Doing The Watchers, which was a very religious experience for me, I learned a lot of things about my own passion and my own feelings in this world. I’ve accepted that it’s OK to feel this way. I was brought up a confirmed Lutheran. I’m not a believer in organised religion, but I do believe in spirituality. I feel comfortable with my own spirituality now. It was during The Watchers I managed to do that. The contact with nature, with myself, was a little respite from the chaos of the world. Being able to actually get in touch and just feel my bare feet on the bottom of the river and just to be able to feel as one.
		So now you’re open to it, because before, on Demanufactured there was a real resentment to God, resentment to religion. There is a certain resentment, because there is a lot of pressure. I was a child; I’ve grown a lot in these years with Fear Factory. And my personality has developed, my spirituality has developed: I think that’s very obvious in the progression of my lyrics and the stories that have been told. You know, these lyrics are not just a verse, they’re a journal increase. I used to question a lot. For a long time I was agnostic. I was never an atheist, I was always agnostic: not understanding. There’s to many questions. Questioning a God that I don’t need to question. All the past months I’ve been reading this difficult book to read. It’s beyond the colourist text books. Ed Inger. It’s called "Ego and Archetypes". It discusses the union philosophies and it goes into detail a lot about bible verses, bible text, writes jokes where he says that archetypes x-ray questioning, that he never really questioned this guy. He always accepted it and is learning to understand. I believe that I haven’t been tested, but this is the path that was chosen for me and I’ve accepted it. And even on this record, the song called "Act Of God". It’s not a question, but it’s an attack on people who use God’s name to change the world into war and to pour hatred. I was attacking the people, not God.
		That song appears to express your anger about the war in Iraq… It’s not anger. Just war in general; it`s like there’s so much bloodshed in the name of ..you know.. the fundamentalist terrorists that bore plains into the World Trade Centre, it was in the name of the same God. Don’t do that! Don’t use his name! It’s all the same philosophy. Basically. Buddhism, the Koran, even the Tora, like you said, it’s all the same idea. We’re fighting because we’re all different tribes of people who’ve been trying to get along for centuries. We just can’t. And we never will. You don’t need to get along with everybody. But you should accept everybody. And that’s the difficulty that everyone is having: They don’t understand each other’s religions.
		I guess that leads back to what you said about yourself: the questioning. I’m miserable so I need to have somebody to blame. Exactly!
		What’s your biggest wish for the future? Just happiness in my music. I would love to continue being creative. John and I are still developing the sound of the Watchers and we’re working on another demo right now, so we’re taking 4 songs that we already did and making them better. It’s still in the developing stage.
		Which songs are you doing? "Residual Presence", "Evading", "Moonshine" and "On The River". Just developing the sound; making more cookies. My wish for the future is to eventually release that.
		I think that is the force of Fear Factory: you guys all do a lot of side projects which generates new energy. It does! Me doing the Watchers is very melodic. Inspiring me and in some ways some of my melodic vocals more than on a Fear Factory album.
		You had a lot of e-mail contact with fans about the Watchers. How important are the critics to you? Everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to it, be it negative or positive, I don’t let it effect me. Because I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do, no matter what. If people like it or not. But it’s important to me that the fans are interested. I thank everyone of them for their acknowledgement, for their criticism, positive bringing it up. It’s support. People are interested and that enables me; there are people who wanna hear it, so OK that’s cool. Gives me the drive to continue, whether they like it or not, at least they’ll be able to hear it.
		So playing live and being near your fans is very important to you. You know it felt so good. That first show that we did in Sydney was the first one in 25 months and the positive reaction from the fans that came out to see us early made me feel so good! Singing live, just that energy that you don’t get from being in the studio. It’s so different. Like you feed of each other. If there’s a band on the stage and they don’t look like they’re having a good time or just not really putting any energy into it, your crowd is gonna feel the same way. It’s all straight from the heart. It’s all honest. When people hear the record I think that everyone will pick a different favourite song. I love all the songs, but my favourite is "Slave Labour". I just love that song! It’s all power and it’s just out there. I know, because sometimes I’ll be singing to myself, just listening to the cd’s in my car and then I happen to look to the left and someone’s looking at me like belting it out and they’re like… I hope the light turns to green so I can split here!
		Is there anything you want our readers to know? Do you think: Well in this conversation I haven’t mentioned it, but I want to! I guess I didn’t mention the Cyberwaiste video, that we filmed in Australia.. We did it in an abandoned power station near the Indian Ocean. It was built in the 1920-ties so it has this Art-Deco style to it. The tall windows, it was just beautiful and the sun was setting behind us through the windows. When the album is released there’s gonna be the cd and a dvd, with the Cyberwaiste video and the making of the Cyberwaiste video. That’s how we figure: you can’t stop downloading, but you can get ahead of it and offer more, what you won’t be able to get when you download. We’re making a special package: we’re making it look great, it’s being released as a digi-pack, with great artwork, with two disks: one cd, one dvd and it’s gonna be very special! One of our stipulations was that it has to be sold cheap. Everyone knows that it isn`t expensive to make a cd. That’s why downloading is so popular. We understand that, being music fans ourselves as well: we don’t like to spend $20,- on an album either.
I feel very connected with what I’m doing now. I feel grounded and I’ve accepted myself, the position that I have. The ability that I have this outlet where I can enable people to hear my music and they can listen to the lyrics and just be a part of it. I think that’s very special and something that I always wanted to do and I’ve been doing it now for so long that I’ve accepted it. (Marcia Gransbergen)